Sending Pattern Changes from Ableton

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Sending Pattern Changes from Ableton

Postby Blankman8503 on Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:01 pm

I am trying to control pattern changes on my EMX-1 externally through ableton and my APC40. I know that to do this i need to set the PCEN filter to OXXX on the electribe. What I don't know is how to send these messages from within Ableton. Or even what these messages must be. The EMX manual says:

"When you switch patterns, the EMX-1 will transmit a program change message [Cn, pp](and Bank Select [Bn,00, mm] (Control Change #00), [Bn, 20, bb] (control change #32) (mm: bank number upper byte, bb: bank number lower byte).If the EMX-1 receives a program change message on the appropriate MIDI channel , it will switch patterns within the same group. If the EMX-1 recieves a bank select message, it will switch groups so that patterns from another group can be selected."

I understand the second part. But don't know what i need to do and what messages to send from Ableton. My goal is to have a MIDI channel in Ableton devoted to cuing these pattern changes and controlled via the APC40. Any help anyone can offer would be appreciated.
KORG EMX-1, Korg R3, Korg Radias, Korg KP3, Korg KM2, Akai APC40, AKai APC20, Edirol UA-101, Cakewalk UM-2, Ableton 8.2
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Re: Sending Pattern Changes from Ableton

Postby StellarJay[aka Ruso] on Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:02 pm

hehehe, what you gotta do is make a new midi track that will send its midi to the same channel the electribe's synth part 1 is (usually 1 unless you change it).

Then under the midi clips launch properties you should be able to see bank and sub bank parameters....

here's a pic:
Untitled-2.jpg
Untitled-2.jpg (66.69 KiB) Viewed 3320 times


Also if you want to trigger it say whenever you press a button, change the CLIP'S launch quantization to off, and midi map the clip to a button.

You could also set this up to navigate with ableton's scenes.

This is a bit fishy but I can help you figure it out.
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Re: Sending Pattern Changes from Ableton

Postby Blankman8503 on Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:40 pm

Ok. Let me make sure I'm understanding this correctly. In the MIDI clips launch properties I assume that the bank, sub bank, and programs settings will correspond with the bank select program chart in the manual that looks like this:

Bank Select
MSB LSB Prog Change Patt. Number
00 00 0-127 A01-B64
00 01 0-127 C01-D64

Would the 00 in MSB and/or LSB correspond with "None" in the Bank and Sub-Bank sections, or a 1 in the case of LSB for Patterns C-D, and then the Program section program numbers 1-127 in Ableton will tell the EMX-1 to switch to the corresponding pattern? Am I understanding you right on that?

My assumption is that i can create a MIDI scene in Ableton for each pattern i want to be able to change to on the EMX-1. And that with the APC40 launching these tracks would in turn send the pattern change message to the EMX-1.
KORG EMX-1, Korg R3, Korg Radias, Korg KP3, Korg KM2, Akai APC40, AKai APC20, Edirol UA-101, Cakewalk UM-2, Ableton 8.2
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Re: Sending Pattern Changes from Ableton

Postby StellarJay[aka Ruso] on Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:33 pm

yes sir you got it...

as far as the particular combinations of bank and subbank values you're gonna have to play around with it to figure it out.... I don't remember exactly which ones were which and I don't have the machines any more.


Also, you are gonna run into trouble with the patterns launching late in which case just change the clip launch quantization to "none" so it will "cue" the pattern change before the bar changes over.
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Re: Sending Pattern Changes from Ableton

Postby Blankman8503 on Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:45 pm

Another question. In previous endeavors with MIDI and the electribe I've had to use MIDIOX and MIDIYOKE. Do I need to use them for this setup?
KORG EMX-1, Korg R3, Korg Radias, Korg KP3, Korg KM2, Akai APC40, AKai APC20, Edirol UA-101, Cakewalk UM-2, Ableton 8.2
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Re: Sending Pattern Changes from Ableton

Postby StellarJay[aka Ruso] on Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:32 am

Nope! Just sent the midi track in ableton directly to a physical midi output port.
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Re: Sending Pattern Changes from Ableton

Postby Blankman8503 on Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:23 pm

I have gotten it to the point that when I press play and stop the EMX-1 plays whatever pattern it is on but does not switch to the pattern that i specify via the bank, sub-bank, and program options. Also when I change the tempo in Ableton it changes the tempo of the EMX. When I push play it will also change the tempo of the pattern that plays to what ableton's tempo is set at. I have tried None, 1, and 128 as bank and sub-bank categories to no avail. I have also changed to Electribe's PCEN options around to try and get it to receive the messages and tried sending the MIDI out to different channels and all channels besides channel 1(my synth part one channel). The play/stop/tempo makes me think that I have the setup correct on the EMX and must be missing something in Ableton. Any suggestions on what I may have forgotten or missed in this setup?
KORG EMX-1, Korg R3, Korg Radias, Korg KP3, Korg KM2, Akai APC40, AKai APC20, Edirol UA-101, Cakewalk UM-2, Ableton 8.2
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Re: Sending Pattern Changes from Ableton

Postby Blankman8503 on Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:32 pm

After a break and coming back and trying again I have the setup working for banks A and B. Using the program drop down in Ableton I can send a message that causes the EMX-1 to change to the pattern (A.01 - B.64). What the Bank and Sub-Bank drop downs have selected has affected the selection of a pattern. Because of this, I do not know how to switch to the second half of the electribe banks. The manual seems to specify between sending a program change message and a bank select message. I have tried to set both the bank and sub-bank drop downs to 128, 1, 2, none with the program set between 1-128 and not had success reaching the banks C or D. I have also tried to send only a bank or sub-bank select message with no program selected and then tried to send the program message next. Also to no avail. Any Ideas?
KORG EMX-1, Korg R3, Korg Radias, Korg KP3, Korg KM2, Akai APC40, AKai APC20, Edirol UA-101, Cakewalk UM-2, Ableton 8.2
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Re: Sending Pattern Changes from Ableton

Postby StellarJay[aka Ruso] on Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:17 pm

I vaguely remember running into that.... I am not sure if I ended up fixing it though simply because I put all my patterns in the first bank.

I wish I had a machine in front of me so I could help you.
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Re: Sending Pattern Changes from Ableton

Postby StellarJay[aka Ruso] on Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:53 am

So, what you'll want to do is get midi ox and midi yoke (like you have done before) and to look at what messages ableton is sending.

First look at what the electribe sends when you change the pattern and then look at ableton and try to bridge the gap in midi. Worst case scenario is that you might have to incorporate midi ox to swap the message around a bit.

Best of luck!
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